is a psychology phd worth it reddit

Should You Pursue a Psychology Doctorate?

Questions to help you decide, and how to make the most of a psy.d. or ph.d..

Posted January 23, 2021 | Reviewed by Ekua Hagan

Especially in a weak job market, it’s tempting to go back to school, including all the way to a doctorate. That may be especially so in clinical psychology specialties, in which an oversupply of job candidates allows employers to ratchet-up hiring requirements. If only because a doctorate is a quite unassailable hiring criterion, it’s often used.

If your aim is private practice, a doctorate may be less helpful in getting clients. While some prospective clients will be swayed by those letters next to your name, being referred by friends, your competence displayed in an initial phone call and sessions, and, alas, marketing may be more central.

Increased employability is, of course, but one factor to consider before committing the time and money to a doctorate.

Should you do it?

Yes, most people should consider the extent to which your employability would improve. If you’re currently employed, would a doctorate get you a significant promotion and raise? How much do you care about those? If you’re unemployed, a doctorate will improve your employability but also important will be whether you’ve made the most of the program. (See this article's final section.)

It’s not all about utility. Do you think you’d enjoy the doctoral education experience, even if the first year or so will be partly or completely virtual? It’s a mistake to decide based on your past college experience, especially if it’s been a while since you’ve been in school.

On the upside, you’re likely more mature and have had more life experience onto which to hang academic learning. On the downside, many older students, even if just in their 30s, find it harder to learn and retain, in part just because they may have family, job, and other activities that take time away from studying.

So, rather than look backward, project forward into the years you’d be in graduate school. What’s your guess as to how much benefit and pleasure you’d derive from the process?

Consider the opportunity cost. If you didn’t spend the time and money on graduate school, what would be a wise use of those years and funds: self-study, apprenticing, doing your current job well, and networking to increase the chances of a more interesting career ?

Choosing where to apply

First, decide whether to go for a Ph.D. or a Psy.D. The Ph.D. of course is better known if only because it’s been around longer. That also contributes to the Ph.D. being seen by the public as more prestigious. In fact, the key differentiator between Ph.D. and Psy.D. is that the Ph.D. focuses on preparing researchers while the Psy.D. prepares practitioners. Of course, many people with Ph.D.s also practice but if your goal is to be a practitioner, all factors equal, consider trading the sizzle of the Ph.D. for the steak of the Psy.D.

Of course, all Ph.D. programs nor Psy.D. programs are alike. For example, each has a primary orientation, perhaps psychodynamic, behavioral, or physiological. Individual professors may be expert in anything from autism to zoophilia.

It’s usually wise to pick a tentative specialty before or during the process of investigating where to apply. Of course, that will ensure that you apply to schools with strength in your prospective specialization. But it will also enhance your admissibility. Most programs get many more applicants than they admit, and a key selection criterion is the extent of fit between the program's strengths and the student's desires. So if you can articulate your being a particularly good fit, your admissibility will improve.

Tip: In reviewing prospective programs, if you find a professor with a specialty of interest, read one of his or her not-technical articles, and if you continue to be intrigued by the specialty, the professor, and the overall program, write an email to the professor explaining that. Ask if you might chat during office hours to discuss the program.

At such a discussion, if it goes well, you might even say that if admitted, you'd welcome becoming that professor’s advisee or even research assistant. Many professors crave acolytes, if only because they provide free or cheap labor on their research projects. That could result in the professor recommending you be admitted.

Which school?

Among programs that admitted you, how well-suited is it to you, ideologically and geographically. Most graduates end up getting a job in that locale, so you may be there longer than just your school years. How good is the financial aid offer? What do external reviews say about the program? GraduatePrograms.com seems to have the most student ratings.

And then there's the prestige factor. Alas, we live in a designer-label society. So "Harvard" will open more career doors than No-Name State even if the latter's program is excellent and better-suited.

Making the most of the program

Your advisor is key. Perhaps as important as the professor's specialization is his or her desire and ability to mentor you and to open career doors for you. If you're not happy with your advisor, change — usually the earlier the better so there's less resentment and more time to bond with your new advisor. Try to establish a relationship with one or more other faculty members: During office hours and via email, ask thoughtful academic and career questions.

Adapt the assigned papers and projects to suit your career goal and personal interests. Usually, the professor will grant your request if it is well reasoned. And select topics for your oral and written exams and dissertation with the same care.

Fieldwork is key if you're aiming toward a clinical rather than research career. If you don't like the placement or supervisor, request a new one. Sometimes, you can even search out and propose a great fit placement that you've unearthed.

The takeaway

In a crowded field like psychology, success typically requires differentiation from the crowd. A doctorate in which you've made career-building choices can be that differentiator.

I read this aloud on YouTube.

The other articles in this series on making major life decisions can be found here.

Marty Nemko, Ph.D ., is a career and personal coach based in Oakland, California, and the author of 10 books.

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Getting a Ph.D. in Psychology

Kendra Cherry, MS, is a psychosocial rehabilitation specialist, psychology educator, and author of the "Everything Psychology Book."

Emily is a board-certified science editor who has worked with top digital publishing brands like Voices for Biodiversity, Study.com, GoodTherapy, Vox, and Verywell.

Verywell / Evan Polenghi

Ph.D. vs. Psy.D.

Job opportunities, earning a degree, specialty areas, alternatives.

Getting a Ph.D. in psychology can open up a whole new world of career opportunities. For many careers paths in psychology-related career paths, a doctoral degree is necessary to obtain work and certification. A Ph.D. is one option, but it is not the only educational path that's available to reach some of these goals.

A Ph.D., or doctor of philosophy, is one of the highest level degrees you can earn in the field of psychology . If you're considering pursuing a graduate degree, you might be wondering how long it takes to earn a Ph.D. in psychology . Generally, a bachelor's degree takes four years of study. While a master's degree requires an additional two to three years of study beyond the bachelor's, a doctoral degree can take between four to six years of additional graduate study after earning your bachelor's degree.

Recently, a new degree option known as the Psy.D. , or doctor of psychology, has grown in popularity as an alternative to the Ph.D. The type of degree you decide to pursue depends on a variety of factors, including your own interests and your career aspirations.

Before deciding which is right for you, research your options and decide if graduate school in psychology is even the best choice for you. Depending on your career goals, you might need to earn a master's or doctoral degree in psychology in order to practice in your chosen field. In other instances, a degree in a similar subject such as counseling or social work may be more appropriate.

A doctorate in psychology is required if you want to open your own private practice.

If you want to become a licensed psychologist, you must earn either a Ph.D. or a Psy.D. in clinical or counseling psychology.

In most cases, you will also need a doctorate if you want to teach and conduct research at the college or university level. While there are some opportunities available for people with a master's degree in various specialty fields, such as industrial-organizational psychology and health psychology , those with a doctorate will generally find higher pay, greater job demand, and more opportunity for growth.

In order to earn a Ph.D. in psychology, you need to first begin by earning your bachelor's degree. While earning your undergraduate degree in psychology can be helpful, students with bachelor's degrees in other subjects can also apply their knowledge to psychology Ph.D. programs . Some students in doctorate programs may have a master's degree in psychology , but most doctorate programs do not require it.

After you’ve been admitted to a graduate program, it generally takes at least four years to earn a Ph.D. and another year to complete an internship. Once these requirements have been fulfilled, you can take state and national exams to become licensed to practice psychology in the state where you wish to work.

Once you enter the graduate level of psychology, you will need to choose an area of specialization, such as clinical psychology , counseling psychology, health psychology, or cognitive psychology . The American Psychological Association (APA) accredits graduate programs in three areas: clinical, counseling, and school psychology.   If you are interested in going into one of these specialty areas, it's important to choose a school that has received accreditation through the APA.

For many students, the choice may come down to a clinical psychology program versus a counseling psychology program. There are many similarities between these two Ph.D. options, but there are important distinctions that students should consider. Clinical programs may have more of a research focus while counseling programs tend to focus more on professional practice. The path you choose will depend largely on what you plan to do after you complete your degree.

Of course, the Ph.D. in psychology is not the only graduate degree option. The Psy.D. is a doctorate degree option that you might also want to consider. While there are many similarities between these two degrees, traditional Ph.D. programs tend to be more research-oriented while Psy.D. programs are often more practice-oriented.

The Ph.D. option may be your top choice if you want to mix professional practice with teaching and research, while the Psy.D. option may be preferred if you want to open your own private psychology practice.

In the book "An Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology," authors John C. Norcross and Michael A. Sayette suggest that one of the key differences between the two-degree options is that the Ph.D. programs train producers of research while Psy.D. programs train consumers of research. However, professional opportunities for practice are very similar with both degree types.

Research suggests that there are few discernible differences in terms of professional recognition, employment opportunities, or clinical skills between students trained in the Ph.D. or Psy.D. models. One of the few differences is that those with a Ph.D. degree are far more likely to be employed in academic settings and medical schools.

Social work, counseling, education, and the health sciences are other graduate options that you may want to consider if you decide that a doctorate degree is not the best fit for your interests and career goals.

A Word From Verywell

If you are considering a Ph.D. in psychology, spend some time carefully researching your options and thinking about your future goals. A doctoral degree is a major commitment of time, resources, and effort, so it is worth it to take time to consider the right option for your goals. The Ph.D. in psychology can be a great choice if you are interested in being a scientist-practitioner in the field and want to combine doing research with professional practice. It's also great training if you're interested in working at a university where you would teach classes and conduct research on psychological topics.

University of Pennsylvania; School of Arts and Sciences. Information for applicants .

American Psychological Association. Doctoral degrees in psychology: How are they different, or not so different?

U.S. Department of Labor.  Psychologists . Occupational Outlook Handbook .

Norcross JC, Sayette MA. An Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology (2020/2021 ed.) . New York, NY: The Guilford Press; 2020.

Davis SF, Giordano PJ, Licht CA. Your Career in Psychology: Putting Your Graduate Degree to Work . John Wiley & Sons; 2012. doi:10.1002/9781444315929

US Department of Education. Bachelor's, master's, and doctor's degrees conferred by postsecondary institutions, by sex of student and discipline division: 2016-17 .

By Kendra Cherry, MSEd Kendra Cherry, MS, is a psychosocial rehabilitation specialist, psychology educator, and author of the "Everything Psychology Book."

Amy Bucher, Ph.D.

Applied Behavioral Science for Health and Well-Being

Should I Get a PhD in Psychology?

Before I get started, keep in mind that PhD programs differ quite a bit between disciplines. If you’re thinking of getting a degree in engineering or English, your program might look a lot different from mine, so keep your grain of salt handy.

You might want to get a PhD in psychology if . . .

You want a job or career that requires a PhD. This one seems like a no-brainer, but not everyone thinks it through. In general, working as an academic in an R1 institution  (that is, a tenure-track professor role that includes both teaching and research) will require a PhD. It’s possible to get a college teaching job at a community college or liberal arts school with a master’s degree, although my guess is that this is getting increasingly competitive as PhD programs graduate new doctors faster than the academic job market can bear . Likewise, it’s possible to work in academic research (particularly in a lab manager or coordinator role) without a PhD, but these roles are not plentiful in the social sciences.

If you are interested in counseling psychology, it may not be necessary to get a PhD. PhDs in clinical psychology who receive their license (through additional training and internships) are qualified to counsel patients, but so are social workers (LMSWs), psychiatrists (MDs), and many other types of professionals. I’d recommend the PhD for someone who wants to counsel patients but is also interested in conducting and consuming research on mental health and treatment.

You can also use a PhD in psychology in a number of non-academic fields. I work in a blended role where I conduct and apply research on motivation and behavior change to health technology. Other psychologists I know work in market research and consumer insights, human resources data analytics, product development, and strategy consulting. A PhD in psychology typically comes with strong research design and analysis skills that can be creatively applied in a number of fields, although you may need to do some work to help others see that connection.

You are comfortable with intellectual uncertainty.  The more you know, the more you become aware of all you don’t know. A doctoral education is a fast way to figure out all of the many, many gaps in your knowledge. Being successful in graduate school requires getting comfortable with the idea that you will never know everything, that there is rarely an easy black-or-white answer to questions, and that your hardest work may not be in acquiring knowledge, but in sorting through it and organizing it. If you’re the type of person who loves puzzling through huge volumes of sometimes contradictory information, you will enjoy grad school more than someone who prefers just enough information to make a basically correct conclusion.

You love learning and sharing what you’ve learned.   This is a corollary to being comfortable with shades of gray. A colleague of mine once told me he can recognize people who have PhDs by their outlook when presented with a problem. He said, they’re the ones who will dive into researching and reading and figuring out the problem and want to discuss it and think about it.

You have a big but resilient ego.  On the one hand, it’s hard to make it through grad school if you don’t believe in your own intellectual abilities. It’s especially important to have a healthy ego because grad school also consists of being constantly beaten down. That sounds fun, doesn’t it? But in all seriousness, the volume of work required, the depth of feedback given, and the level of competition encountered in grad school all wear down on you over time. Add to that the many rejections and set-backs that everyone encounters during grad school, including paper and conference rejections, grades or exam scores below goal, and funding crises, and it takes a resilient soul to make it through. And it takes a big ego to keep submitting the next paper, exam, or grant application after the last rejection.

This is not to imply that grad school will not also make you more resilient. It will. You will learn a lot of strategies for coping with tough days and nights, and you’ll find enduring friendship in the trenches.

Some cautions . . .

If you want to be rich, a PhD is not a quick win.  You can definitely make a very nice living with a psychology PhD, in several different types of jobs. But grad school is expensive–even if you have a stipend to cover your costs, you will not be earning enough money to save, and you may additionally be acquiring loans. Because grad school living is so lean, I am glad I went right after my undergraduate, while I was still used to having no money (although I have friends who worked between undergrad and grad school and were glad to have some savings).

Many PhD programs include a master’s degree as part of their curriculum. I’ve met people who pursued a master’s degree as a way to test the waters for a PhD program. In general, I recommend against this. Many, if not all, PhD programs in psychology include a master’s degree as the conclusion of the first few years of coursework, and I’ve never heard of a program that lets someone skip those first few years based on a prior master’s. The people I know who tested the PhD waters by getting a master’s are now people with two master’s.

PhD programs take a while.  My grad school program, like many psychology PhD programs, was approximately five years long and included two years of coursework toward the master’s along with ongoing research requirements and at least four semesters of undergraduate teaching. Students pursuing a clinical license also have to do an internship on top of these other requirements.

People will be weird to you if you get a PhD in psychology.  First, if you get any PhD, some people will want to comment on your intelligence level (at least they assume it’s high!), which I find awkward. Second, if your PhD is in psychology, prepare for comments like:

• “Do you know what I’m thinking right now?” (Answer: No, that’s psychic, not psychologist.)
• “Are you psychoanalyzing me right now?” (Answer: No, I’m not that type of psychologist, but even if I were, I wouldn’t be doing my job for fun right now.)
• “So you must know everything that’s wrong with me.” (Response: Well, I know you don’t really know what a psychologist does.)

Joking aside, I think the PhD can intimidate people at times, so be prepared for those reactions and ready to either use them to your advantage or alleviate them with humor and humility.

It’s up to you.

Like I said, I can’t tell anyone whether a PhD in psychology is right for them. The decision has to be one you own. Grad school is hard and long, but also filled with many adventures and pockets of joy. I am so glad that I went and earned my PhD. I wouldn’t have my career and the opportunities it provides if I hadn’t, and I would never have met many of the people who are the most important in my life. If you want to take on this onerous journey, you have to really want it; but if you do, I promise you’ll have some good times on the way.

Related posts:

• How to Describe What I Know: The Appeal (and Frustration) of Psychology
• Careers in Psychology: To Counsel or Not?
• Career Options Outside Academia for Psychology PhDs
• Walking Away from Academia with a PhD in Psychology

4 thoughts on “ Should I Get a PhD in Psychology? ”

I’m in my last year of my undergrad in psych. In 27 and have 2 kids. I want to pursue a degree where I can do what I enjoy, and make money. I’m worried about another 7 years in school for a PhD and was told there isn’t much for me with a masters in clinical psychology. I had looked into LCSW, but was not sure if I would be content selling short my dream/goal. Can I counsel, and still do research with a masters? Or am I better with an LCSW?

Admittedly, clinical practice is not my area of expertise. However, I do know people who have counseled with an MA and I also know several people with LCSWs. Both seem like good options if you’re interested in the clinical piece.

I’m not sure about the research part–I’d imagine that depends on where you end up working as a counselor. In a university or health system setting, it seems to me that should be possible. The PhD does make research more feasible as it sets you up to run a lab (assuming you go into academia or a research-focused company).

I was very influenced by the idea that even if something takes a long time, that time will still pass and at the end of it you could have done the thing or not. There have been a few times it’s helped me make choices that seem like they take a lot of time and commitment.

I’m interested in what you decide! I am sure you will find a way to do what makes you happy while making money.

Hi Amy! Thank you so much for your posts. I’ve been STRUGGLING with the decision of whether or not to apply to graduate school for a PhD in Social Psychology. To be frank, I don’t feel qualified to apply and I’m unsure if my reasons for wanting to go to graduate school are good ones. I’m no longer an undergrad student so opportunities to work in a lab has been impossible without at least a Master’s.

A little bit about me: I graduated from undergrad in 2015. I did work as a research assistant for a couple of months, but I mainly invested my time working full-time to pay for school. I liked working in a lab but it was in Human Development & Nutrition, so I often found myself watching the dynamics and social interactions between the family members rather than watching what I was tasked to focus on (whoops). I graduated with decent grades (3.75) with two majors (Communication & Psychology) and a minor (Latin – I love languages). I have a lot of supervising and training work experience from my job, and I would like to continue working in a training/educational capacity (so not really interested in being in academia).

The reason I want to study Social Psychology at the Doctoral level is because I have SO many questions on topics like resilience & life stories. As a trainer & supervisor, I would witness people crumble and thrive in the face of obstacles and (as a person who has the tendency to crumble) I would wonder: “What do resilient people do differently? How can the way we view our life stories change how resilient we are in the face of life challenges? What about in the context of training for a new position? How can programs be created to take into account differing personalities and stories?” Another reason is because I’ve read so many personal development books but I couldn’t help but think: “This is nice but show me the research behind it. I want to see it tested and understand why it works.” Not really sure if those are good enough reasons to apply.

Overall, I want to be able to take research on resilience and make it more applicable and accessible. I want to create workshops & train people on resilience & life stories (possibly do something similar to life coaching), but I’m not sure if that’s a good enough reason to apply or if I should probably go about it through another route.

I apologize for the long comment, but you’re website has been the only helpful website I have found on this topic!

Thank you for the kind comments!

As for applying–it can’t hurt to look at a few programs and see if you can’t find one that feels like a good fit. Having served on the admissions committee while in grad school (we were all required to give a year in service), I can tell you that your passion and curiosity will matter. Maybe you can find a few names of professors or grad students at schools that interest you working on resilience and grit and reach out to them for an informational interview (you may have better luck with grad students).

The other thing you could try to do is find a non-academic research job that lets you explore your questions. Agencies are a good place to look. Many big companies are also bringing behavior change teams in-house.

I’d love to know what you end up doing!

Comments are closed.

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Is a PhD worth it? ( self.academia )

submitted 1 year ago by [deleted]

What are your thoughts and perspectives, I am considering to pursue a PhD in computational biology/neurogenetics but not sure it it worth it in long run (also for jobs after finishing PhD program)

• 14 comments

Want to add to the discussion?

Post a comment!

[–] DangerousBill 9 points 10 points 11 points 1 year ago *   (2 children)

If you stop at a bachelor's or master's, your eventual boss might have a PhD. The advanced degree isn't for everyone, but it opens up depth and variety in your career options.

My PhD took me into six different specialties at five different employers ranging over government, industry, and academia.

A friend of mine worked on a single enzyme for his entire career, ending up as president of his university. Anything is possible.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 1 year ago   (1 child)

True, thanks for the insight. Your career path is really amazing, in what field was your PhD?

[–] DangerousBill 1 point 2 points 3 points 1 year ago   (0 children)

Biochemistry, but post docs in virus genetics and enzymology.

[–] [deleted] 4 points 5 points 6 points 1 year ago   (2 children)

40-60% of graduate students don’t finish their PhDs. The only reason to do a PhD is if you are sufficiently passionate about a field that you want to devote 4-5 years to mastery of a highly specific component of it. If you don’t have that level of passion, you won’t finish. As for career prospects: it’s a crapshoot.

[–] _XtalDave_ -1 points 0 points 1 point 1 year ago   (1 child)

Woah, where are you where the drop out rate is so high? Here in the UK the combination of failure and drop out rate is ~20%

[–] [deleted] 1 point 2 points 3 points 1 year ago   (0 children)

[–] DeepSeaDarkness 4 points 5 points 6 points 1 year ago   (1 child)

Do you want to do research as a career?

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 1 year ago   (0 children)

Yes, but doing research is also possible in companies for example so that’s why it seems difficult to decide

[–] FOXO1_IGMBC 1 point 2 points 3 points 1 year ago   (0 children)

If you have to ask, you already know the answer. Once you start, you will continue to ask that question every year, and it will get harder and harder to justify the answer. Many will talk about the benefits after but you need to remember that you have to finish first, and if your asking this question as a graduate student the answer for just yourself is inevitably no.

[–] CptNemo55 0 points 1 point 2 points 1 year ago   (2 children)

Well, it depends, what is the reason you want to get a PhD?

I want to get it as it allows for my research to have more societal impact, and the focus lies more on the research than just profit and money which can be the case in companies. And I enjoy going to conferences and am passionate about the topic

[–] CptNemo55 0 points 1 point 2 points 1 year ago   (0 children)

Ok, all good reasons. What do you plan to do for a job after you have PhD?

[–] sbby31 0 points 1 point 2 points 1 year ago   (0 children)

I think that, unfortunately, it is a personal decision. Your career aspects in that field are probably decent with or without a PhD. You can definitely get yourself into a role that supports research (research that greatly benefits society, if you are lucky) with a bachelors/masters degree, and many people are very happy in that kind of role.

I assume you are relatively young (20s-ish). Doing a PhD will rob you of the experience of having money pretty early in life, and that is a dealbreaker for some (no judgement, there is no right or wrong answer). The job market for PhDs is no longer a "sure thing" that guarantees you wealth/tenure later in life.

I got my PhD in a roughly comparable field- I did it mostly because I wanted the option to lead research efforts or teach afterwards. I do not think I would be happy in a bachelors level role working under PhDs who lead the research efforts, or in an industry role where I have very little autonomy, and I stand by that decision. I decided that was important to me and endured 5 years of BS getting another slip of paper. I am not far along enough in my career to know if a PhD was the right call, but so far it has worked out well for me and I am glad I did it.

[–] marcopoloman 0 points 1 point 2 points 1 year ago   (0 children)

I did my PhD a few years ago. It did get me a much higher paying teaching position.

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2024 Salary Megathread Averages

I had ChatGPT average all the salaries from the megathreads starting Jan 2024. Note: I had it remove all PhD/psychologist salaries. I did this because in contemplating if it is worth the ~4 year commitment to transition into becoming a LMHC, I need to know more solidly what to expect income wise. While a Google search is helpful, often reported salaries are a conglomerate of so many roles. While this isn't necessarily better, it's a least one more window in. In any case: Hope it helps someone else!

Overall Average Salaries Reported Jan 2024-June 12th 2024:

All (74 reports): $79,924.59

All Private Practice only (13 reports): $82,500

*Note for All PP: Not everyone clarified if what they reported is net profit, so this is a mix of net profit and those who didn't explicitly state net profit, and so this may not be the most accurate representation.

Private Practice only - net (5 reports): $127,000

*Note for All PP net: This identifies only 5 individuals who reported net profit, and excludes those in PP who didn't note if their income is net or not.

Lastly: If anyone reading this is PP in the last bracket (net profit greater than $120k) and is open, I would love to understand what your path was like to get here (feel free to DM or add to comments!).

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• Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]

Is it worth pursuing a PsyD? Should I just do a Masters program?

• Thread starter aspiringpsych3384
• Start date Aug 18, 2020

aspiringpsych3384

Full member.

• Aug 18, 2020

Don't get a degree just because you want to be called a doctor.  

Amen to the above. If the allure of becoming a "doctor" doesn't fade during the application process it definitely will by the time you finish grad school. There's nothing wrong with liking the idea of being a "doctor," but if that is what you are relying on to drive you in any shape or form then that motivation will fail on you very quickly.  

Pedantic Pirate

I think you should strongly consider a Master's in Social Work (MSW) if you are solely interested in providing therapy. You're able to provide therapy with this degree and it's only two years. While a Psy.D. might be a higher paycheck, you also need to factor in debt to your take home pay when considering advance degree options. It's not uncommon for people to leave Psy.D. programs with >$100k in student loan debt. That's simply bad math for a career that pays around $70-80k per year.  

There are also plenty of people with MSW and LCSW who end up making more money by taking administrative positions while also doing therapy. These folks can make excellent therapists  

Clinical Psychologist & Neuropsychologist

There are many things you cannot do without an APA approved doctoral degree and post doc residency, including prison and VA work. Also, more and more other positions are requiring these things. All of this is due to the proliferation of for-profit diploma mills.  

msc545 said: including prison and VA work Click to expand...

deleted106747

conky124 said: Amen to the above. If the allure of becoming a "doctor" doesn't fade during the application process it definitely will by the time you finish grad school. There's nothing wrong with liking the idea of being a "doctor," but if that is what you are relying on to drive you in any shape or form then that motivation will fail on you very quickly. Click to expand...

chicandtoughness

conky124 said: There are also plenty of people with MSW and LCSW who end up making more money by taking administrative positions while also doing therapy. These folks can make excellent therapists Click to expand...

Board Certified in Clinical Neuropsychology

Bottom line, if you are not adequately trained to conduct and consume research, you are not a psychologist or a doctor, you are a midlevel who spent too long in school and likely paid WAYYYYYYY too much money.  

foreverbull

Psychologist.

I’m still not understanding why you want a doctorate. If you just want to provide therapy, doctoral programs will take 5-7 years or more until you can become licensed and be paid full pay as a licensed psychologist (a postdoc job to get hours for licensure is commonly required, too, as well as a national exam and sometimes state-level exams that are pricey). Early career psychologists also don’t always start out with the expected high pay (some folks in here do, but some don’t), so some still work their way up (this will depend on region, specialty, setting, etc.). The vast majority seek a doctorate to not only provide therapy but to have the flexibility to provide assessments, teach, conduct research, go into a particular niche (i.e. sports psychology, neuropsych), etc. Instead, you could get a master’s degree in about 2-3 years, gain your licensure hours by year 3 or 4 (you’ll have to do an internship to get licensure hours and take an exam in master’s programs as well) and be fully licensed by year 4 and providing therapy. The pay ceiling is lower, but you’d be able to be part of the workforce faster and come out with less debt. I’d suggest an MSW with a clinical emphasis because it is more portable from state to state and offers more flexibility in job choices.  

msc545 said: There are many things you cannot do without an APA approved doctoral degree and post doc residency, including prison and VA work. Also, more and more other positions are requiring these things. All of this is due to the proliferation of for-profit diploma mills. Click to expand...

Psycycle said: Plus you're perceived as a "doctor" and not a doctor, anyway. Unless you're a neuropsychologist, then you're a doctor. At least that's been my experience. Click to expand...

conky124 said: At the VA the joke is everyone is a "doc" so you could save a lot of money and time that way. Click to expand...

cara susanna

Except for the patients who DEMAND to see a PhD (which from my experience is often diagnostically telling).  

futureapppsy2

Assistant professor.

• Aug 19, 2020

I spent so many years getting emails from journals that incorrectly addressed me as “Dr” before I got my PhD (I published and reviewed a LOT as a PhD student) that I still feel the reflexive need to tell people that I’m not “Dr. Lastname”, before remembering that I actually am.  

cara susanna said: Except for the patients who DEMAND to see a PhD (which from my experience is often diagnostically telling). Click to expand...

futureapppsy2 said: Narcissism? Click to expand...

BuckeyeLove

Forensic psychologist.

futureapppsy2 said: I spent so many years getting emails from journals that incorrectly addressed me as “Dr” before I got my PhD (I published and reviewed a LOT as a PhD student) that I still feel the reflexive need to tell people that I’m not “Dr. Lastname”, before remembering that I actually am. Click to expand...

PHD Comics: An Honest Academic Rejection Letter

Bookwormpsych.

tdkarma said: Thanks for the comments guys I think im gonna opt for a masters in counseling before I commit to a PsyD! Does anyone know of any good programs? Are there any good masters programs with funding? Click to expand...

Clinical Mental Health Counseling Program | College of Humanities & Social Sciences

Peacemaker36

Well, psychologists in private practice do typically earn more than Master's level clinicians. Medicare and most private insurers pay doctoral-level clinicians more for psychotherapy. If you choose not to accept insurance then you can set your own rates; in general self-pay patients seem willing to pay more for a therapist with a doctorate, although there are many exceptions of social workers with high fees and large caseloads. However, despite the higher annual earnings for psychologists, you'd really have to crunch some numbers to know which path would lead to higher earnings over the course of your career. The opportunity cost of 5-7 years of schooling can be estimated. So can the repayment schedules for student loans. It's been a while since I've seen this fun video about the wish to be called "Doctor":  

• Aug 20, 2020

R. Matey said: See other threads about my feelings on LPCs. That said, this is the only partially funded program I know of: Clinical Mental Health Counseling Program | College of Humanities & Social Sciences Director: Dr. Christina Byrne We have an excellent program for training Mental Health Counselors at Western Washington University. The program involves a two-year full-time package of academic courses and supervised practica and is accredited by the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and... chss.wwu.edu Also, I do not recommend doing an LPC and a Psy.D. Both of these types programs are largely unfunded leaving you in substantial debt with little hope of being able to pay it off in a reasonable amount of time. The training model for these programs are assuming an entry level amount of education meaning that you'll be likely repeating coursework. If you really just want to be a clinician, why not consider an MSW? Click to expand...

Peacemaker36 said: Well, psychologists in private practice do typically earn more than Master's level clinicians. Medicare and most private insurers pay doctoral-level clinicians more for psychotherapy. If you choose not to accept insurance then you can set your own rates; in general self-pay patients seem willing to pay more for a therapist with a doctorate, although there are many exceptions of social workers with high fees and large caseloads. However, despite the higher annual earnings for psychologists, you'd really have to crunch some numbers to know which path would lead to higher earnings over the course of your career. The opportunity cost of 5-7 years of schooling can be estimated. So can the repayment schedules for student loans. It's been a while since I've seen this fun video about the wish to be called "Doctor": Click to expand...

foreverbull said: I’m still not understanding why you want a doctorate. If you just want to provide therapy, doctoral programs will take 5-7 years or more until you can become licensed and be paid full pay as a licensed psychologist (a postdoc job to get hours for licensure is commonly required, too, as well as a national exam and sometimes state-level exams that are pricey). Early career psychologists also don’t always start out with the expected high pay (some folks in here do, but some don’t), so some still work their way up (this will depend on region, specialty, setting, etc.). The vast majority seek a doctorate to not only provide therapy but to have the flexibility to provide assessments, teach, conduct research, go into a particular niche (i.e. sports psychology, neuropsych), etc. Instead, you could get a master’s degree in about 2-3 years, gain your licensure hours by year 3 or 4 (you’ll have to do an internship to get licensure hours and take an exam in master’s programs as well) and be fully licensed by year 4 and providing therapy. The pay ceiling is lower, but you’d be able to be part of the workforce faster and come out with less debt. I’d suggest an MSW with a clinical emphasis because it is more portable from state to state and offers more flexibility in job choices. Click to expand...

R. Matey said: I think you should strongly consider a Master's in Social Work (MSW) if you are solely interested in providing therapy. You're able to provide therapy with this degree and it's only two years. While a Psy.D. might be a higher paycheck, you also need to factor in debt to your take home pay when considering advance degree options. It's not uncommon for people to leave Psy.D. programs with >$100k in student loan debt. That's simply bad math for a career that pays around $70-80k per year. Click to expand...

tdkarma said: Do you think a MSW could earn more money? Click to expand...

Social Workers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

beginner2011

Beginner's mind.

• Aug 21, 2020

tdkarma said: This was veryyyy helpful. Thank you so so much for this valuable insight! Do you know of any good MSW programs with a clinical emphasis? Click to expand...

PsyD - Do you regret graduating with a PsyD

• Aug 23, 2020

tdkarma said: Do you know of any good MSW programs with a clinical emphasis? Click to expand...

• Sep 6, 2020

Sorry, I do not. This is not my area of study.  

deleted1129217

• Feb 16, 2022

aspiringpsych3384 said: Thanks for the comments guys I think im gonna opt for a masters in counseling before I commit to a PsyD! Does anyone know of any good programs? Are there any good masters programs with funding? Click to expand...

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